Sincere apology from SOE for NGE mistakes.

[Mobus]

soe.lithium.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=1039243#M1039243

I think I'm ready to forgive them now. The game feels so much better after this latest patch that I am starting to think maybe it was a good move doing the NGE. Not the smartest or best, but certainly not totally disastrous by itself. The thing that made it disastrous was exactly what this guy says: Timing, delivery, and communication. They got all three wrong.

He is responding to the OP, which showed something Smedley said that could be taken to mean LA made the NGE and forced it upon SOE.

"First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.

So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)

We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.

Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.

Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE
---------------------------------------------
It's a rough life, but someone has to live it."

Not only did they need to warn us months in advance, but they needed to work on the system for many more months before it ever went live. Prematurity has always been a problem for SWG, and personally I think it is the greatest hindrance to the game.

One other thing. Unless this guy is lying through his teeth, just doesn't know about it, or it is still early in planning or development, I now highly doubt this rumored third combat system revamp is actually in the works. And no matter which rumor you choose to believe (precu style with professions back or totally new thing), I think NOT revamping is the way to go. I really don't want them to set themselves back in development and bugs to fix again. The NGE set them back a good 2-3 years in development if you ask me, literally, and I don't want that again.

If they do want to change the combat system drastically, they need to do it slowly, not all at once. That way it could not be done prematurely, and it wouldn't come as a surprise. Then it wouldn't be the complete failure that the NGE was, and they wouldn't have to walk the gauntlet that making a system under those conditions is.

I think that is what they should have done with both the CU and the NGE. Slow and steady. Then they could gauge community reactions to every little change, and adjust their plan accordingly. How could you make a bad combat system that way? Like right now. They introduce the expertise, we love it. If they introduced the NGE with expertise so long ago, we still would have hated it. The change would have been so big and so quick that the only way we would like it is if it was some wonder system. Well it isn't. But it is getting playable and enjoyable finally.

[Lezaro]

Wow that just made my day lol.. and i might even be getting a car to!

[Mobus]

Woot! Getting a car is so fun lol. Is it your first? I love my first car, I want to make it last as long as I possibly can.

I love it so much, I give it kisses sometimes.

[Neek]

To me, the delivery was bad, but the changes delivered were worse. If you politely tell me that all those hours I've played to earn Jedi are now useless cause every new player will get it right off the bat, it doesn't matter how well you deliver that to me, I'll still be upset and I think that it pissed a lot of people as well. It's not good to present players with a platefull of feces, but what they stay is true, if you slap the poodoo in the player's face, it's wrong.

[Mobus]

What you say is true Neek. Those hours were for naught. The elder robe and a blue glowie just doesn't quite cover it. The only thing that really could is our money back. Jedi should have never been in the game, in any form. Not as a playable profession for everyone, and most certainly not as an Alpha class, or as it was by the CU, an almost-alpha class. But now they are in the game, and they always will be.

When you have jedi in a mmorpg, you really only have two choices. Super hard to obtain, but super powerful. Just like in the movies. The other choice is what we have now. Easy to obtain, same strength as the next guy. Those two choices are bad enough as it is, and anything in between just doesn't cut it. You have them like they were in the CU and they aren't rare enough, aren't powerful enough, and aren't even achievable for all players who want them, even though they pay SOE just as much money as everyone else.

There's a list of problems, and it certainly isn't complete:
Too powerful, not fair to non-jedi
Too weak, doesn't match movies
Too numerous, doesn't match timeframe
Too easy to lose (permadeath), I got disconnected and now all my hard work is lost
Too hard to balance a game when you have one alpha class and the rest are weaker

There is absolutely no solution that solves all of those problems. Every Jedi system has two or more of those problems. This new system is the easiest to balance, and the fairest to new players (more new subscriptions that way).

The aboslute best system for a SW mmorpg is NO JEDI PLAYERS, but it is far too late for that. And that is one reason why SWG will never be anything near perfect. However, another Star Wars mmorpg in a different time frame can certainly be a lot better, but would still have problems unless Jedi was the only profession.

If you want Jedi in a mmorpg and want them to be like in the movies, there cannot be other professions. The same goes for if you want other professions in a SW mmorpg. There cannot be player Jedi.

This is one of the constant dilemmas SOE had to face, and is the reason behind many of their bad choices. It is the reason the Smuggler revamp is 3 years behind schedule, for instance. Now that they have gotten to the point of no return with Jedi (everyone can be one now, doesn't fit the movies but at least they can finally get to balancing and fixing the game, not balancing and fixing the Jedi), they can finally make the game better.

[Neek]

A transition would have been nice. A fair way to convert what we earned through hundreds if not thousands of hours to something worth getting. The elder title was important, but I don't think it would have been unfair to new players if elders would be superior. I think it's normal that if you're new in a game, that you're not equal to people who have been playing a long time. If I was a new guy, I'd respect that.

An elder robe, which isn't all that great from what I heard, ugly color crystals that aren't better than what's available out there, not sure if the elder sabers are superior as new ones, just like pre-CU sabers were superior compared to what we had. They wanted a brand new generation of young players and that's exactly what they got Hope they are happy with the result.

[Mobus]

Jedi being superior was the problem and the reason they made them available to everyone in the first place. You can't have an alpha class and expect for anyone BUT that alpha class to be happy. Especially if no one can achieve that anymore because you took the chance away from everyone but the people who already got it. The time isn't entirely wasted, because although anyone can pick up Jedi now, not everyone gets an elder robe or those elder crystals. I think the crystals are better than anything out there, and I know for sure that the elder robe is. Although it isn't impossible, it's very hard for a Jedi without an elder robe to beat one with an elder robe.

Ever since they said Jedi would be achievable by players, the game had problems. And ever since people started to unlock Jedi, the game was stuck with those problems. There is no perfect solution to any of them. The only thing that can be done is to get rid of as many problems as you can, and I think the devs have done that concerning Jedi. No, it's not fair, and yeah it does suck. But the game would just keep getting worse and worse for new players as more and more people became Jedi. The same goes for people who never wanted to be a Jedi. Smugglers still can't smuggle, and it is because of Jedi. There is no disputing that. Creature Handlers might still be around if there were never any player Jedi.

It was one of those greater good decisions. The bad thing about their decision was the package it came in, the NGE. It may turn out to be the right choice, but they lose justification with each step they take to being closer to the way the game was before.

I don't think an NGE was needed to solve any of SWG's problems. But now we have it, and the devs better make it good. This last patch was a huge step in the right direction. No, I don't think it's good enough, but if they keep it up it will be.

[Neek]

The First CU was needed I think. Being able to fight everything with macros wasn't all that nice. Plus, every class had 1 super powerfull skill that they would use to defeat everything. I was fun to pwn everything though (damn I loved Fencer/Swords/some medic).

After that CU, we adjusted and it became nice to have a few more skills to use. Armor breaks and stuff... Wasn't spamming a single skill so it got better. Too bad they slapped another CU

[Ehrgeiz]

Some things SOE has done has been bad but I have to say the game at lower levels is far better then its every been. I started a alt commando and its been so much fun to have quests in SWG that are as good as WoW.

[Neek]

ehrgeiz said:

Some things SOE has done has been bad but I have to say the game at lower levels is far better then its every been. I started a alt commando and its been so much fun to have quests in SWG that are as good as WoW.

That's something I never even bothered to try in SWG. I started to get hooked on quests on kashyyyk and realized that some of them have great rewards Quests were very optional when I started so I never took the time to check'em out. I have to say that quests on Kashyyyk and the traisl of obiwan were pretty cool. Specialyl part III of the obiwan trials. That fight that you have to do alone against that super jedi, where you have to use that crystal at the right time. I was hopping on a plane for traing that evening and I ended up packing my bags while waiting for the 60 minute cooldown because I messed my first attempt, then ended up staying an hour more at home and risk missing the flight cause I messed up the second attemps as well but 3rd time was the one. I got the reward, logged out and raced to the airport.

Good memories

[eoro]

the quests are about like WoW. some are good some are bad. it seems like the quests depends on the area. i mean i liked the tat area quests cause it took you through the jabba theme park while you are there, naboo ones have been sort of slow.

you also have the side quests (once you reach the right lvl) to do so your just not following the path laid out for you. you have the legacy quest, then you can branch off do some piloting, or the rebel/imp faction quests, the vette quests, secret of the syren (if it's still active).

it seems like they follow the lvl line pretty good. bye the time you finish the legacy quests they offer (more on teh way) you should be around lvl 40-50. then you can knock out the faction theme parks, then you should be ready for kash and on to musty.

[Neek]

I didin't even know there were 'path' quests in SWG like WoW. Learn something new everyday I guess.

Theme parks were decent. Jabba and rebel were fun cause you got to see familiar faces but the quests themselves were pretty bad. Lots of swooping in the steepest hills you'll ever see and back 45 times. WoW has lots of those too though, not all quests can be super fun and exciting.

[Ehrgeiz]

Yeah neek these are new to me, nothing like it was its in game when I played. Its very good at low levels I can see new people that have ever played would get hooked.